Input Request

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Input Request

Post  alasdair69 on March 31st 2011, 6:44 pm

Hokay peeps, I need some input. As you all know, I’ve been going through my multitudinous files trying to determine which girls are fully eligible for inclusion in the final roster, which ones are barely eligible and which ones aren’t even close and for most that’s a pretty simple (albeit time consuming) process. For a few of them though it gets a little more complicated because of the various incarnations of the character, whether it’s simply alternate outfits or different age brackets or whatever, and I’d like your opinions on a few of them.

I’ll start with the Pokemon girls since we discussed them once before but never came to a consensus. Both Misty [Kasumi] and Sabrina [Natsumi] are Gen I girls who had a wholesale redesign at about Gen IV I think it was, to the point that their earlier versions look nothing like their later appearances.

Spoiler:

Now, personally I like both of their older designs better as I feel they’re more visually interesting and distinctive but that’s just me and I’ve never been the biggest Pokemon fan on Earth anyway. Something else to consider though is that while only about three years had passed in-continuity between Gens I/III and II/IV (which to my mind makes no sense in Misty’s case, since the new version looks a lot more than three years older) internal evidence shows that anywhere from five to ten years have passed between Gens II/IV and V (Caitlin [Cattleya] went from being roughly 15 in Platinum to mid-20s in Black and White). While that would certainly justify some pretty extreme changes in appearance, one is forced to wonder why these two are the only ones who seem to be affected by the passage of time.

Next up, from a related franchise, we have two Digimon Adventure girls, Mimi Tachikawa and Sora Takenouchi. Once again, their appearance changed dramatically between seasons one and two of the anime but since they were 11 and 12 to begin with and it was a three year gap this makes a little more sense.

Spoiler:

Now, before someone asks the obvious question, “If they were 11 and 12 to begin with why do we care what they looked like in season one since they weren’t eligible for inclusion?”, the answer is that I think their season two designs are kind of … meh, especially Sora’s although Mimi’s still isn’t as unique and interesting as she looked in season one. And apparently everyone else on the internet agrees with me (or are into little girls, which is probably just as likely) since the vast majority of fanart I’ve seen of them both has them with their earlier looks. I’m seriously considering just saying that the SimBro versions of the characters never changed their styles during those three years (although the pics used would still have to look like they were approximately 13 or 14, naturally) but I was wondering what everyone else thought about it before making a final decision.

Moving on, from Dragonball GT we have Videl Satan who comes in a long haired girly-cute version and a short haired butch-cute version.

Spoiler:

I assume that these two versions are supposed to represent her at two different ages (I’m only one season into the original Dragonball so she hasn’t even been born yet), in which case the short haired one is probably the most appropriate since it probably dates to after she’s given birth to Pan (anyone can feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about that). The problem is that I just plain like the long haired version more and feel it makes a better intermediary visually between Chichi and Pan.

Spoiler:

There are enough good h-pics of each to land either one firmly on the Green list though, so what’s your guys’ take on which we should use?

Right, now that the age issues have been addressed there are three more girls where the question is simply what outfit best represents the character. The first two are Ciel/Elesia from Tsukihime and Nina Einstein from Code Geass, both of which have a more or less normal outfit and a school uniform to choose from.

Spoiler:

From my admittedly limited research it seems to me that the Catholic looking outfit would be the most appropriate for Ciel since that’s her working attire while the school uniform would be best for Nina because that’s what she spends most of the show wearing, but since I have no firsthand experience with either source I wanted to make sure.

Lastly we have Viletta Vadim from Super Robot Wars. I’ve got pics of Viletta in a vaguely militaristic looking off the shoulder outfit as well as some sort of skintight Rob Liefeld/Image Comics/body condom-looking thing.

Spoiler:

Both are extremely hot but since I know more about string theory than I do Super Robot Wars I don’t know which is the more appropriate/iconic look for the character so if someone could help me out I’d appreciate it.

One last thing I’d like some input on that doesn’t have to do with how to represent a character so much as whether she should be represented at all is in regards to Shokatsuryo Koumei from Ikki Tousen. I’ve pretty much exhausted every research avenue I can think of short of watching the (in my opinion truly horrible) anime or reading the (by all accounts pretty good) manga and I can’t for the life of me figure out how old she’s supposed to be. Every source I can find says she’s ‘very young’ but that’s it and the pics I’ve been able to dig up seem split down the middle, half of them making her look about 13 and the other half making her look about eight. So if anyone out there knows definitively how old she’s supposed to be let me know, okay? Otherwise I’ll probably just take her off the lists entirely since I can’t be sure she’s young enough to go on the apprentice list either.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide. I really appreciate your contributions and your help in making SimBro the best game it can be. Very Happy

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Re: Input Request

Post  greatwhite on March 31st 2011, 11:05 pm

pokemon girls i say the before pics are better
digimon girls i say the after pics
dragnball videl i say the after pics
code geass, i say the after pics
and the super robot wars girl i say the after pic


these are just my votes on it

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Re: Input Request

Post  Vava on April 1st 2011, 12:24 am

*cracks knuckles*

-> Misty [Kasumi] and Sabrina [Natsumi]

Technically, Misty got an appearance update in the second generation of Pokemon (Gold/Silver/Crystal), but Sabrina remained unchanged (I think it was updated in the Heart Gold/Soul Silver versions). Anyway, I personally lean towards Misty's second gen incarnation and Sabrina's original appearance. Personally, I'm fine with Misty's original appearance but strongly opposed to Sabrina's new one. That's my two cents, anyway.

-> Mimi Tachikawa and Sora Takenouchi

I'm actually surprised you were able to find enough decent pictures to include any of the Digimon series characters (an under appreciated series, in my opinion). *double-takes* ... I could have sworn that there was a much broader gap in the years between Adventure 1 and 2 (underestimated Takeru and Hikari's ages). Anyway, I personally lean towards the Adventure 2 incarnations, as well, but you should use whichever one works the best for you (picture availability/quality, comfort level, etc.).

-> Videl Satan

Hmmm... I can't say; I have a thing for long-haired girls and short-haired girls. :/ Then again, you also mention that the long-hair helps as an intermediary between Chichi and Pan, so that may be the more appropriate choice. Again, just use whatever seems to work best.

-> Ciel/Elesia (Tsukihime) and Nina Einstein

I'm not terribly familiar with either series, but the catholic outfit/school uniform call sounds appropriate.

-> Viletta Vadim

The characters in the SRW games are typically portrayed, both in and out of game, most of the time in their outfits/uniform; the only time you'll see them in their pilot gear is when they're making an attack.

(ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmKR88Nz9DQ&feature=related)

3:50-4:40. Notice how Ingram (blue-hair) is portrayed in some sort of uniform in both his dialogue bust and mugshot but is briefly shown in a pilot suit.

Anyway, I'm saying it would probably be more appropriate to portray her in her uniform as opposed to her pilot suit. Again, though, use whatever works.

-> Shokatsuryo Koumei

I'll get back to you on her when I don't literally have someone waiting over my shoulder for me to be done with the computer. :/

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Re: Input Request

Post  Joshua on April 1st 2011, 11:05 am

im plundering vava's format

-> Misty [Kasumi] and Sabrina [Natsumi]

I like mistys newer look more then the old one (never did like the anime look for some reason) sabrinas either or though i like the original a little bit more since i havent seen the newer much

-> Mimi Tachikawa and Sora Takenouchi

Mimi like the new pink hair look, sora looks the same to me just different clothes.


-> Videl Satan

not sure where the hair change came from, but I say long hair.

-> Ciel/Elesia (Tsukihime) and Nina Einstein

first for blue hair girl, school for other one

-> Viletta Vadim

uniform is less high tech then pilot suit so id say that


not at all familar with the last part.

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Re: Input Request

Post  alasdair69 on April 1st 2011, 8:28 pm

greatwhite wrote:pokemon girls i say the before pics are better
Vava wrote:-> Misty [Kasumi] and Sabrina [Natsumi]

Technically, Misty got an appearance update in the second generation of Pokemon (Gold/Silver/Crystal), but Sabrina remained unchanged (I think it was updated in the Heart Gold/Soul Silver versions). Anyway, I personally lean towards Misty's second gen incarnation and Sabrina's original appearance. Personally, I'm fine with Misty's original appearance but strongly opposed to Sabrina's new one. That's my two cents, anyway.
Joshua wrote:-> Misty [Kasumi] and Sabrina [Natsumi]

I like mistys newer look more then the old one (never did like the anime look for some reason) sabrinas either or though i like the original a little bit more since i havent seen the newer much
I’ve got to go against the majority here and say that I actually prefer Misty’s original look over the newer one simply from a design standpoint. It’s far more distinctive and eye catching with the bright primary colors and that shock of flame orange hair than some woman with sandy brown hair in a one-piece swimsuit and even people who have never played one of the games or watched an episode of the anime would still probably at least recognize her as ‘that Pokemon chick’. However, the whole point of including her, or any of the Pokemon girls for that matter, is to appeal to the Pokemon fans, which I’ve stated on numerous occasions I am not, and while I wouldn’t exactly call our little group a representative sampling of the Poke-fanbase, a two to one majority still speaks pretty loudly. Or three to zero in the case of Sabrina. What I have to wonder though is out of 427 gajillion characters in a continuity spanning a bare minimum of eight years, why have only three of them (including Caitlin, who aged 5-10 years between Gens II/IV and V) had any significant redesign? I mean, if everyone showed signs of growing up and changing their style that would be one thing, we’d just go with the most recent incarnation of everyone and call it a day. But why did Misty go from a precocious adolescent to a lifeguard and Sabrina from a dominatrix to a soccer mom while, say, Yellow or May still look exactly the same? Is it because those three are the only characters from previous Generations that have thus far appeared in a newer one? If so, then it can be assumed that everyone has been growing and changing and we just haven’t seen the results yet, which would mean that every other Poke-girl from a Generation before V is actually portrayed incorrectly. But unless we want to only include characters who have appeared in Gen V or else just throw out the redesigns and say that Pokemon characters are ageless and always appear exactly as they first appeared I don’t know how to reconcile it. I know it’s just a game and I’m overthinking it (I’m good for that), but I’m OCD dammit and it bugs me. LOL

greatwhite wrote:digimon girls i say the after pics
Vava wrote:-> Mimi Tachikawa and Sora Takenouchi

I'm actually surprised you were able to find enough decent pictures to include any of the Digimon series characters (an under appreciated series, in my opinion). *double-takes* ... I could have sworn that there was a much broader gap in the years between Adventure 1 and 2 (underestimated Takeru and Hikari's ages). Anyway, I personally lean towards the Adventure 2 incarnations, as well, but you should use whichever one works the best for you (picture availability/quality, comfort level, etc.).
Joshua wrote:-> Mimi Tachikawa and Sora Takenouchi

Mimi like the new pink hair look, sora looks the same to me just different clothes.
First, let me clear up a misconception. I haven’t found any pics of the Digimon characters, mostly because I haven’t actually looked for any. Mimi, Sora and a couple of others though were included in the WhoreMaster Horde that I downloaded a while back and while I wouldn’t exactly call the pics great they were at least sufficient to warrant their inclusion on the Yellow list. And the number of years between seasons came from their respective ages during those seasons according to the DigiWiki so it may or may not be accurate but was all I had to go on. As for the different versions of the characters, much like the Poke-girls, I don’t mean to imply that there’s anything inherently wrong with the newer versions, they’re fine as far as they go. It’s just that, again from a design standpoint, a teenage girl in a skirt and t-shirt (admittedly one with sparkly pink hair) is still a far cry from Mimi’s original ‘save a horse, ride a cowgirl’ outfit and while Sora’s original look did give one the impression that roller derby had been added to the Special Olympics, at least it’s a lot more distinctive and original than a generic green schoolgirl uniform, you know? But it doesn’t seem to bother anyone else so what the hell? *shrug*

greatwhite wrote:dragnball videl i say the after pics
Vava wrote:-> Videl Satan

Hmmm... I can't say; I have a thing for long-haired girls and short-haired girls. :/ Then again, you also mention that the long-hair helps as an intermediary between Chichi and Pan, so that may be the more appropriate choice. Again, just use whatever seems to work best.
Joshua wrote:-> Videl Satan

not sure where the hair change came from, but I say long hair.
Well, if I’m understanding greatwhite correctly that’s one for short hair, one for long hair and one essentially abstaining, which pretty much leaves it entirely up to me. And as I mentioned I’m partial to the long hair version myself, sooooooooooo…………………

greatwhite wrote:code geass, i say the after pics
Vava wrote:-> Ciel/Elesia (Tsukihime) and Nina Einstein

I'm not terribly familiar with either series, but the catholic outfit/school uniform call sounds appropriate.
Joshua wrote:-> Ciel/Elesia (Tsukihime) and Nina Einstein

first for blue hair girl, school for other one
Wow, you mean two out of three people actually agree with me on something? Isn’t that a sign of the oncoming apocalypse? *snork* Admittedly, I was pretty sure I was on the right track with Ciel, it was really Nina Einstein that I wasn’t 100% sure about. As near as I can tell, it isn’t until the 40th of 50 episodes that she shows up working on the FLEIJA project for the Britannian government, having been a simple student at Ashford Academy until that point, but I just assumed that the red outfit with the half cape depicted her at that point in the story. And don’t worry, if it had turned out that the second outfit was more appropriate I would have found another picture where she looked less like she was about to boil somebody’s bunny. *shudder*

greatwhite wrote:and the super robot wars girl i say the after pic
Vava wrote:-> Viletta Vadim

The characters in the SRW games are typically portrayed, both in and out of game, most of the time in their outfits/uniform; the only time you'll see them in their pilot gear is when they're making an attack.

(ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmKR88Nz9DQ&feature=related)

3:50-4:40. Notice how Ingram (blue-hair) is portrayed in some sort of uniform in both his dialogue bust and mugshot but is briefly shown in a pilot suit.

Anyway, I'm saying it would probably be more appropriate to portray her in her uniform as opposed to her pilot suit. Again, though, use whatever works.
Joshua wrote:-> Viletta Vadim

uniform is less high tech then pilot suit so id say that
Okay people, please bear two things in mind here. The first is that, as stated, I know more about string theory than I do SRW. The second is that one of the few things I do know about SRW is that they think bolero jackets, mini skirts and go-go boots make perfectly functional military uniforms. Now, we’ve got a consensus that the uniform is a more appropriate choice for Viletta than the pilot suit but one question remains: which one is the verdammt uniform and which one is the pilot suit? LOL I’m going to go out on a limb and assume the red one is the pilot suit but this being SRW and SRW being what it is I’d appreciate a confirmation on that.

Vava wrote:-> Shokatsuryo Koumei

I'll get back to you on her when I don't literally have someone waiting over my shoulder for me to be done with the computer. :/
Well, when you do get a chance to research it good luck brother; if you can actually find a definitive answer you’re going to have to clue me in on whatever mojo you’re using because I turned up bupkis. I was just hoping someone had watched/read the anime/manga and might know off the top of their head.

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Re: Input Request

Post  Joshua on April 4th 2011, 9:09 pm

the verdammt uniform has the crest (wings decoration) and ribons on the our view left colar her view right colar.

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Re: Input Request

Post  alasdair69 on April 5th 2011, 2:56 am

Joshua wrote:the verdammt uniform has the crest (wings decoration) and ribons on the our view left colar her view right colar.
So it's the blue one. Yeah, I kinda figured as much (as evidenced by my somewhat tongue in cheek phrasing of the question) but since this IS SRW we're talking about here and their uniforms tend to look a lot more like something a hooker would wear than anything military I've ever seen I didn't want to completely rule out the red latex catsuit without confirmation.

And just to make sure we're all on the same page, the votes have been tallied and we are officially going with Gen I Sabrina, second season Mimi and Sora, long hair Videl, Catholic-looking Ciel, schoolgirl Nina and the uniform version (that's the blue one *nods*) of Viletta. Since opinions were divided on Misty (me and greatwhite preferring v1 and Vava and Joshua preferring v2) I'm going to do what so many SimBro project leaders before me have done so well: put off making any sort of decision for as long as humanly possible. LOL We'll just gather enough pics to use both of them and then decide between the two later.

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Re: Input Request

Post  Joshua on April 5th 2011, 11:17 am

yea all the people with some worth have ribbons on their non combat uniform, (some BDUs do as well but thats not the point.)

but misty gym leader has only 3-4 pics on gelbooru, since the anime is so much overwhelmingly popular. (after all tell somebody pokemon has a manga they go 'wtf?' )

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Re: Input Request

Post  alasdair69 on April 5th 2011, 12:03 pm

Joshua wrote:but misty gym leader has only 3-4 pics on gelbooru, since the anime is so much overwhelmingly popular. (after all tell somebody pokemon has a manga they go 'wtf?' )
Yeah, I was actually pretty surprised by it myself when I started doing the research, but then again I've said many a time that I'm not exactly the biggest poke-fan on Earth. As for v2 Misty, I currently have 6 h-pics for her: a with and without fluids version of the same perfectly acceptable pic and four more borderline ones (one with kinda suboptimal art, one with a hard to remove cel phone/pokedex/whatever, one with excessive speech bubbles/sound effects and one that you have to look real close at to even tell it's a sex pic in the first place). Admittedly that's just from what's been sent to me already and I haven't gone pic-mining myself yet (I've been able to track down enough pics for far more obscure characters so who knows) but availability of pics will also definitely be a deciding factor in which version to use. Of course, there aren't really that many pics where v1 Misty doesn't look like a 10-year old either so I'd say they're about neck and neck right now. *shrug*

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Re: Input Request

Post  Joshua on April 26th 2011, 4:45 pm

Bump?

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Re: Input Request

Post  alasdair69 on April 26th 2011, 11:52 pm

Hey guys, sorry I haven't made good on my promise to give regular progress updates but I've been a tad under the weather. Of course, since my immune system is pretty much shot anyway (a long story involving a rather pernicious bacterial infection, an entire cluster of lymph nodes becoming necrotized and the surgical equivalent of an ice cream scoop) 'a tad under the weather' in this case translates to 'sick as a dog and choking to death coughing up my lungs'. And to add insult to injury, the meds I'm taking make me narcoleptic 'drowsy' so I've gotten a lot of sleeping at my computer done and not much else; I think in the last three weeks I've gone through maybe 20 or so folders out of the 200 I started with. Crying or Very sad On the plus side though I'm finally starting to feel significantly better so there's definitely a light at the end of the tunnel, I just hope my luck doesn't hold true and it ends up being a train. *snork*

On the business end of things, I have gotten a little bit done and am feeling more and more like doing more and more every day, I'm waiting to hear back from Loup on some research he's doing for me and I've been sending stuff Vava's way to help him whip the wiki into shape.

Anyway, I'm going to go slip into a nice warm coma now. I can't promise when the next unsolicited post from me might be but even when I'm not saying anything I'm keeping an eye on the forum so if anyone has any questions or wants to discuss something I'm only a post or a PM away.

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Re: Input Request

Post  alasdair69 on June 15th 2011, 2:34 pm

Hokay, time to request the services of someone more knowledgeable than me again, this time about Sakura Wars. We currently have 17 girls suggested from that source and looking over the available art I've noticed something. Each of them have some pics in snappy matching uniforms which I assume are their official battle gear or what have you as well as pics in ... something else, a consistently appearing outfit for that particular character but radically different than anything anyone else shows up in, which I assume to be their general appearance when they're not in battle. Unfortunately, the 'Sakura Wars Media Empire' encompasses 21 games, 6 OVA series, a TV anime, an animated motion picture, 6 light novels, a manga series and a series of live action musicals, of which I've actually personally experienced ... the first 2 episodes of the anime. Period.

As such, I really have no idea how they should each be presented and therefor which images to choose from to determine whether or not they have enough to be considered eligible for inclusion in the final roster. So just what is their most 'iconic' appearance? Assuming they only wear the snazzy uniforms when they're out fighting demons, if they spend most of their screentime doing that then the uniforms are probably the way to go. But if the vast majority of each game/episode/etc. is devoted to character development and interaction and they hardly ever fight demons in their snazzy uniforms, then the other outfits would probably be how they're most recognizable. OR, for all I know, the snazzy uniforms may be what they wear around the base and then they switch into the personalized outfits to go fight demons, in which case everything I just said would be reversed. And since the various characters debuted in different games, it's also possible that what holds true for some of them might be different for others.

Since I'm just spinning my wheels here and don't really want to take the time to watch the whole anime series (I doubt I could even find most of the games in English anywhere, even if I wanted to take the time to play them), I'd appreciate any assistance that anyone more familiar with the characters could provide.

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Re: Input Request

Post  alasdair69 on June 17th 2011, 10:09 am

What, really? Nobody? Come on, somebody has to know more about these characters than I do (which wouldn't take much, I assure you). And yes, I know it's just been two days and I don't mean to sound impatient but I need to get the whole Green/Olive/Yellow thing sussed out before I can move on to working on the game model again and for that I need to know which outfits these characters should be represented in. Anyway, thanks in advance for any help that anyone can provide me in this. I really appreciate it.

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Re: Input Request

Post  Joshua on June 17th 2011, 2:19 pm

Sorry not familiar with it at all.

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Re: Input Request

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